Proposed Changes to Howe Magnet School

Today the students at Howe Magnet school were informed that the school was closing and being relocated to Central Park Middle School to become a K-8 school. The parents, meanwhile, were given backpack mail informing them of Eric Ely's attendance at the upcoming PTO meeting to discuss "structural changes that will directly effect Howe School." From a procedural standpoint, why were the students informed before the parents, especially if at present it is only a proposal? Even more importantly, though, what are the details of this proposed change? Howe Magnet School is one of the jewels in the Schenectady School District and it seems short sighted and misguided to make such a significant change to it. Central Park was not designed as an elementary school (for instance, it is my understanding that there are no low hand rails or bathrooms in classrooms - a state regulation for kindergarten). Making a change of this nature should warrant careful planning to ensure a proper learning environment for the students and instructional support for the teachers. It should not be rushed through in seven months. Details of the proposal should be made available prior to Tuesday's PTO meeting so the school community can respond to them with Mr. Ely there, rather than hear of the details for the first time at the meeting.

I agree wholeheartedly. Changes of this nature to a school should be a process of collaboration between staff, parents, and administration - not a decision made behind closed doors. Parents should be provided details of this proposal before the meeting, so they can gather their thoughts and think through their positions ahead of time.

That said, it seems counterproductive to "experiment" with the only elementary school in the Schenectady City School District that is currently rated as "High Achieving". If there is research that says that the K-8 model is a good one, why not try this new structure with an elementary school that is in need of improvement? Since Howe School is doing so well, wouldn't it be smart to leave it as is?

It is my understanding that Howe is not going to be the only proposed K-8 school in the district. The other magnet schools are also slated to become K-8 and that the Howe building will still be used by the district. Our program at Howe is great. We all know that. Our teachers would be going to Central Park with our students. This would insure that we continue to have our excellent programs.

Even though I wasn't part of the Howe community until a few years ago, this is not the first time that this idea has been brought up by the Superintendent. I will be very interested in hearing what he has to say myself.

Aaron Sicotte wrote:

Today the students at Howe Magnet school were informed that the school was closing and being relocated to Central Park Middle School to become a K-8 school. The parents, meanwhile, were given backpack mail informing them of Eric Ely's attendance at the upcoming PTO meeting to discuss "structural changes that will directly effect Howe School." From a procedural standpoint, why were the students informed before the parents, especially if at present it is only a proposal? Even more importantly, though, what are the details of this proposed change? Howe Magnet School is one of the jewels in the Schenectady School District and it seems short sighted and misguided to make such a significant change to it. Central Park was not designed as an elementary school (for instance, it is my understanding that there are no low hand rails or bathrooms in classrooms - a state regulation for kindergarten). Making a change of this nature should warrant careful planning to ensure a proper learning environment for the students and instructional support for the teachers. It should not be rushed through in seven months. Details of the proposal should be made available prior to Tuesday's PTO meeting so the school community can respond to them with Mr. Ely there, rather than hear of the details for the first time at the meeting.

A: First, authorization was not given for this information to be shared with any students. Second, this K-8 idea is a proposal that has been discussed in the district for over five years beginning with the development of the districts last five year strategic plan. Howe is certainly a quality school and program. As a magnet program it is designed as an option for parents and we are exploring the idea of expanding that option to include grades 7 and 8 giving more students and their parents an opportunity to choose this high quality program option. The facility at Central Park has been scheduled for renovations and updating next summer through the Capital Improvement referendum that passed two years ago. Therefore, any necessary alterations to the building will be easily complete before the beginning of next school year should we decide to go forward with this proposal. I will be posting an overview of the plan on this district website today and certainly will discuss concerns and ideas with any interested parent any time from this point forward.

I don't have a child at Howe but cannot imagine what it was like for the kids if they really found out about the upcoming changes before their parents did.

kerrichris wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly. Changes of this nature to a school should be a process of collaboration between staff, parents, and administration - not a decision made behind closed doors. Parents should be provided details of this proposal before the meeting, so they can gather their thoughts and think through their positions ahead of time.

That said, it seems counterproductive to "experiment" with the only elementary school in the Schenectady City School District that is currently rated as "High Achieving". If there is research that says that the K-8 model is a good one, why not try this new structure with an elementary school that is in need of improvement? Since Howe School is doing so well, wouldn't it be smart to leave it as is?

A: All of our elementary schools are in good standing under state and federal NCLB standards. As magnet program, Howe has always been an optional program for families. By expanding the program to include more grades, we are giving more students the opportunity to benefit from the program. With this proposal, we continue to develop top quality options for our families.

The K-8 research is very solid and the model is not experimental. In fact, many districts (especially urban districts) have been using this model for the past several years. Our district has been committed to providing this K-8 opportunity to our families for at least the last six years and was included in the original strategic plan for the school district.

From reading what was put online, I like what is being proposed.

Despite not being a parent, and being a student in SHS, when I was at Central Park it was crowded.
I can not say that it was the most pleasant experience, but it certainly was not horrible. From what I have read, this could make school a much better experience for students.

The possibility of adding the Primary and Middle Years Programmes offered by the International Baccalaureate would certainly make the SCSD more attractable, and I do believe the only district in Upstate New York to Offer all three International Baccalaureate programmes. (The last time I checked, all three programmes are mostly being offered downstate.) This could draw more out of district students that would pay tuition, which would be some income to the district. Not a huge sum, but income is income.

I remember being at Mont Pleasant for young scholars, and a few of my relatives attended there for High School- from its size, if there were to be an influx of students, I do not think space would become an issue. Especially since feeder schools would be re-calculated/routed.

Overall, I think that this proposal is very well thought out, I just hope that the unfortunate state of the economy and State budget doesn't put a damper on this to the point that the proposal is forgotten.

I am a parent of a child who attends Howe Magnet School. I received the first letter yesterday and was not aware that "structural changes" actually meant a move to Central Park Middle School.
My question to Mr. Ely is "Why the vagueness?" If I had not asked about this letter I wouldn't have known what this discussion on Tuesday was to be about. I proabably would not have even made the decision to attend.

I also would like to ask you why were the teachers and staff not invited to meet with you before this coming meeting. I have seen them and they have the look of someone who has just had the rug pulled out from under them. I don't understand why you would want to go into this informational meeting and not have the staff of Howe and Central Park on your team. I find this to be quite disrespectful to all of those dedicated teachers and staff who have made Howe school what it is today.

I am a parent of a child in kindergarten and a relatively new home owner/resident of Schenectady. So, unfortuately, I have not had the opportunity to participate in the dialogue for the past five years regarding k-8. I would like to know what the process is for actually approving yhr move of Howe to the Central Park School and converting it to K-8. Will it be voted on at the next school board meeting? Is there a required vote?

Frankly, from my research, K-8 may work, but the devil is in the details. Keeping the younger kids somewhat isolated from the older kids is essential. Would they be in different parts of the building? Is the building being specifically redesigned for the k-8 environment? Different lunch rooms, playgrounds, gyms, etc. Will there be assurances that the older kids have left the school ground by the time the younger kids leave school for the day? An 8th grader can say something that is casual to them, but could be tramatic to a 1st grader....what assurances do parents have that this will not happen? details, details, details...please!

Howe has a great group of teachers, admin staff and paras. Will this team remain in place? Will the class sizes still remain a maximum of 25 students? It is unfortunate that if this has been in discussion for five years...that it was not shared with us when we were deciding on whether we should join the Howe family. Now my child is going into first grade and we must consider pulling her out or keeping her in the Magnet school....it sure would be useful if we had the details to make an educated decision.


Regards,
PMC

I'm working my way through the proposal and am trying to understand some of the numbers. Where does the projected number of 7th graders (in the first table, without the proposed changes) at Central Park next year (124) come from? If you take the 60 6th graders that are already there, and add in the 6th graders from the feeder schools other than MLKing - 21 from Keane, 37 from Paige and 49 from Woodlawn - you get 167 kids, not the 124 mentioned in the proposal.

A related question is where are the 6th graders from Blodgett and Roosevelt slated to go for 7th grade?

Thanks for this opportunity to get questions answered....

Now I'm looking at the numbers if the proposal is implemented..... Why is the Central K-6 number 317 instead of something closer to the 361 that is the current Howe K-6 population. The 44 that move forward into 7th grade will be "back-filled" by kindergartners coming in.

Thanks.

Well,
I just heard of this news today about the changing to Central Park middle school and expanding to a K-8 which I think is a great idea because I think ALL of our children would be more comfortable being in a new school with the same teachers and same faces verses having to transfer to a different middle school in 7th grade which could be hard for them. As well as have any of you heard how BAD these middle schools are here in Schenectady, I hear a horror story about mont plesant or Central park at least twice a week. I would feel more comfortable knowing my kids are comfortable and able to stay in the same school until High school. Do you ALL want your kids going to these bad middle schools? Not that the teachers or academics are bad but the students in these schools have no morals and don't care. I hear about horrible violence, I think with the teachers and staff we currently have at HOWE transfering to the new building would be a warm transition for these kids but we need the positive influence of the teachers in order for these students to make this smooth transition. It's not easy for me either, my kids were at another school for 3 years and moved to HOWE this year and now they are comfortable and love it, but I was and am concerned about middle school, but if these happens I will be at ease. I was going to be to interdistrict them to Scotia and I know many other parents that were as well. There are a few questions I do have for Mr. Ely though. Will there be a playground installed before the transition for the young children? What about Parking? I am a bit pondered on how the school is going to let the 6th and 7th graders that are there stay being howe has it's own 6th graders that will be moving to 7tth grade and 5 graders that will be moving to 6th grade and with that being said I think it would be to over crowded if the current central park students were allowed to stay as well. I feel that if this is a HOWE "move" then the school should start off with Howe kids and go from there. I think it would be to over whelming to let the current students from central park to stay as well as our students. Our students at Howe are really different from the current central park students and I have to say that our HOWE students are a bit more respectful and into their academics. Anyone else have an opinion on that? Well I hope I get a reply to my questions before Tuesday. Also I hope the HOWE school remains on a lottery? will this stay? thank you again
A concerned but welcomed to changes for the better parent.
Will our name still be HOWE international Magnet?

After reading Mickey's post, I wondered will the current Central Park students have to move out of the school they know and how will the school district overcome bringing the two groups together?

Can the post from Greer and responses be moved from the Human Cost of Cuts string to a link on this page since it addresses his or her fears of special ed students being integrated at Central?

mickey011901 wrote:

Not that the teachers or academics are bad but the students in these schools have no morals and don't care.

Our students at Howe are really different from the current central park students and I have to say that our HOWE students are a bit more respectful and into their academics. Anyone else have an opinion on that?

This is for Mickey- please reconsider your thoughts about all these students - kids are kids are kids; they're the same throughout the city. The only difference is that each magnet school kid has a parent or guardian who took the time to fill out the application/lottery form; everything else flows from that. We know the teachers are top-notch and the kids are consistently kids throughout the district; it's the parent/family involvement that makes the difference. The proportion of kids at with a very involved parent/guardian may be a bit higher at the magnets. There are a few troubled kids in every school and middle-school-age is difficult for everyone.

I would like to see smaller numbers of older students in a K-8 school too, just for balance, but if a lot of dedicated parent/family/guardian volunteers work with staff and spend time at the school, we can made the transition go well. Let's all look at our 2009-2010 calendars and decide on a couple days where we'll volunteer at the school to be there for all the kids.

The FAQs characterize Spanish and Chinese instruction as "new," but I think Spanish has been taught at Howe for at least a decade. Regardless, knowing something of these languages will give kids incredible advantages in the future, and foreign language instruction really needs to start early. So, district decision-makers, please commit to retaining these programs. Thanks.

I am a Howe parent and I remember hearing about this proposal a few years ago. Parents were concerned about how the the magnet program and teachers would move. I am SO HAPPY to see that the proposal includes moving the teachers and magnet program!
I have to say that I am surprised at some of the negative posts on this thread. We all need to calm down and consider what makes a school: is it the walls and handrails and buses or is it the people and programs inside?
I have concerns about my younger kids mixing with older students, and wonder what time school will start. But I think we have to look at the opportunities being presented. We also have to put some trust into our administration. Our school district opened 3 new elementary schools last year- the administration knows exactly what elementary students need. K-8 is a proven successful program- not an experiment. Sure, we need to keep asking questions- but also must TRUST our administration - they are professionals and have expertise in areas like opening new schools and providing innovative programs.
The opportunities are endless- we would be moving to a spectacular location- next to Central Park- imagine how teachers can use that resource, the greenhouses, walking path, and tennis courts… We would have an opportunity to keep our school/parent community together until 8th grade, and our kids ‘ instruction would continue to revolve around international themes. An earlier post stated that if the new school became an IB school that it might be the only one in upstate NY. That should excite parents- not make them freak out!
I think we also have to be very careful about what we say about Central Park middle school and any other parents and students outside of Howe. Remember- as magnet school parents we are located all over the city- the students and parents you complain about may be your neighbors! My older kids went to Mont Pleasant middle school and it was wonderful. The postings about violence are simply not true. The school was calm, the kids were learning, and the Principal did not tolerate poor behavior. I challenge anyone to go visit MP or CP any time and you would be very impressed. It’s wrong to state that Central Park kids don’t care about learning like Howe kids. My friends whose kids went there were very concerned and involved with learning!
This discussion should not turn into accusations and labeling. It should explore the opportunities and lay out questions. I think it’s unfortunate that some Howe students found out about the proposal from teachers - that is not a role for teachers to take. I hope their actions weren’t meant as way to sabotage this process and cause turmoil with parents. If teachers have concerns I hope they will post them. Someone told me that teachers don't want to move their classrooms. I just don't believe it- the Howe teachers I know are way above that type of petty nonsense. Now the proposal is out there. We can read it and think about it and formulate questions. Let’s stay calm and be positive.

Central Park teachers were told there will be no grade 6 here- so will it be K-5 7/8?
Really to mix a K or 1st grade innocent with some of the chronic discipline issues at the middle school, makes not sense. The foul language alone would concern me for these little minds to hear.
CP is not at all designed for small bodies. How about the lack of parking and various bus issues.?

I have to agree with TDR Parent and Howemom. Howe students are no better than the Central Park students. You are making a big generalization when you label all the Central Park students as bad. Middle school is a challenging time for a child. There are good and bad kids in every school. What is important for each and every child is that they get the support from home as well as in school. There are many committed parents at Howe and I would assume that Central Park has its fair share of committed parents. If this proposal is enacted, one of the most important things is for the two school communities to work together to ensure a smooth transition.

Mr Ely - Could the forum at CPMS include building tours for Howe parents? I've never been inside that buidling. Thanks.

[color:fbf4=dark blue]Dream come true for you ! Have you seen the bars on the windows? How there is no play ground and how there where 3 shootings in the same area as central park school? WOW!!! This is not my dream come true for my 4 year old and 9 year old. I live in the Howe school community .. I do not want my children bullied and intimadated!!! Well this is great about all the studies done but not one mentioned about how the children K-5 did !... But I am still reserching.. I love wasting my weekend on reserching this stuff and not being around my children! What is the alternative plan for when the K-5 children do not succed. Or there academics decline. While the 6-8 children are doing so well!

I had to write after reading the response on the forum stating that we need to trust our administration. I am sorry but after teaching for sixteen years, although not in Schenectady, I think putting blind trust in central administrators who have usually not taught in a classroom for years and are usually out of touch with the day to day struggles of teaching is a stretch at best. I see people write that this is a proven success. Unfortunately schools are known for latching onto the "hot" educational reform of the time. The research I have found is limited and still inconclusive on the long term effects of the K-8 model, so is this really a long term solution or a quick fix? Although you can find research which does support the idea that 6, 7 and 8th graders benefit from this model, what about our K-5 population? Plus that same research states that grade configuration is not the only factor that leads to improved performance. There are other critical factors that are important to consider. I do not understand the idea of taking Howe's success to prop up a struggling middle school and how that will help the primary students. I also have concerns about my child possibly riding a bus and sharing space within the school with students who are physically and emotionally more mature. The language and behavior of middle school students could be inappropriate for younger children to witness, and I know that first hand because I teach middle school. I am concerned that although administration states that this plan has been in the works for six years they have no concrete plans for how they plan on logistically carrying this all out. That is being reactive not proactive and does not leave me with confidence in the school districts leadership. Although the teaching staff is moving with the students, what about Mrs. Coffey, who is a solid instructional leader/principal? Reassigning her to another building would be a loss in this process. Is administration willing to put in the proper supports to make this work, such as the appropriate number of counselors, assistant principals, etc like the research suggests? I also would like to see the research the district is citing to support this change. Why is the meeting taking place after our Howe students were told the school was closing and then we received a notice stating no decisions had been made yet? Is this meeting just appeasement to the fact that a decision has already been made in reality? I think that instead of bulldozing this through we need to have several open discussion forums with central administration and the Board of Education members present. As taxpayers who support this district and parents of students who will be directly affected we should have the opportunity for our comments to be seriously considered in this decision making process. I think that administration assumed we would all blindly follow their vision in this less than transparent process. It says on the Q & A section of this forum posted by administration, supposedly on 29 of October, that a final decision has to be made by mid February, well then why were parents not notified several months ago and why were more meetings not scheduled earlier? I think there are too many serious questions and logistical decisions that still need to be discussed and made before closing the Howe Magnet School next year. I fully agree with BChriss comments.

I am devastated to hear what the school district is planning to do to the Howe School. I'll have you know that I am a single father of two boys, one son who now attends Howe and one that I was HOPING would attend Howe. My oldest son who was attending the Burnt Hill school has improved in his school academics and attitude about school since attending the Great Howe school. My son is learning a second language which he couldnt recieve at his former school. I am a big fan of the Howe school and very proud and impressed with everything about the school. I would like to see my boys attend a school with other student that are the same age group and have the same interest as kids there age. I feel sending little children to school with older children will only lead to concerns for parents. We all know how teenagers talk and act. We were all there at some point and either heard or seen these types of behaviors. Let our littleones grow with littleones , not with teens. A dream come true for my boys is to attend the Howe school.

This is for Mickey- please reconsider your thoughts about all these students - kids are kids are kids; they're the same throughout the city. The only difference is that each magnet school kid has a parent or guardian who took the time to fill out the application/lottery form; everything else flows from that. We know the teachers are top-notch and the kids are consistently kids throughout the district; it's the parent/family involvement that makes the difference. The proportion of kids at with a very involved parent/guardian may be a bit higher at the magnets. There are a few troubled kids in every school and middle-school-age is difficult for everyone.

I'd have to agree here. I am a substitute teacher in Schenectady District. I've been in almost all the elementary schools in the district and have gotten to know many of the kids. From this perspective I'd have to say all the school populations are about the same. There are some kids that are easy to teach because they truly want to learn. There are some kids who have a difficult time understanding the material so I need to adapt what I say and how I explain things. This makes me a better teacher. Finally there are some kids who just don't think that all this school stuff really matters. They also make me a better teacher because I have to find ways to make them interested in the material so that they want to learn.

Yes, parent involvement is really key. When the parents teach and model a desire to learn, the kids become infected by that desire. When parents are absorbed in other things, (and these things may be very real - like working two jobs to put food on the table) kids get the message that school is not important. The teachers have to work harder to make the message clear - that eduation is critical. This is a very difficult task and the full time teachers need to be appreciated for the exhaustive jobs that they perform tirelessly day in and day out to reach the most needy kids.

This is true in all schools. From a substitute's perspective, Howe is not better or worse than any other school.

I haven't been able to come up with any recent reports on benefits of K-8, except older ones. I was looking for recent ones from perhaps this past year, but haven't found any. But I did stumble across this article where it could raise concerns if younger students were dismissed at the same time as older students.
http://www.schenectady.k12.ny.us/news/Inthenews/schoolviolence.dailygazette.051808.pdf
I was also wondering would the 6th grade teachers already at Howe move to CPM too; as well as all the support staff and would there be two separate entrances, one for K-6 and one for 7-8th and two principals for each section, would the Howe principal and her assistant coach be the principal for K-6th at one section of the school, and the CPM principal and assistant principal for the 7th-8th section?

I suggest that all taxpayers go visit Central Park on a school day. As a taxpayer you have a right to do this.
You will be shocked to hear the language and to see what goes on. Then decide if you want
young children there. What kind of children are attending that school?
My neighbor went last Wednesday to pick up her sick daughter and 2 administrators were
CARRYING a boy screaming obscenities down the hall. As she waited in guidance for the daughter- the same carried boy was heard kicking walls!! NICE I really want my 6 year old with that!